[raisedwilde]

I wasnt going to stick this into the UFo thread, but on a similar note whats your view on ghosts?

A good example is crashed aircraft in fields often leaked de icer which for years creates eerie mist and nothing will grown in the soil...

.. along comes drunken clod and nearly dies of fright...

 

[Scaryfatmaniffer]

Ghost theories I guess depend entirely on your own personla beliefs into the afterlife (if there is one).

Assuming you believe in the existence of souls and spirits then I guess there are two viewpoints associated with this

1) the restless souls of the dead unable to travel further (ie dictionary definition)

2) something that is ethereal and non human based (e.g. christian/jewish angels and demons /muslim djinn or shintoist Kami)


If you can't accept this then there are 2 other approaches - either:

Another supernatural phenomena such as the earth recording events like a camera - emotions, events etc.

or you can look for a natural explanation for everything in the world of science.

Personally I believe in a mixture of all the above but then I have wierd beliefs.

"There are more things in heaven and earth........" and all that
 

[alec42]

Consider the naive materialist postion that mind=brain. If this is the case, then the state PAIN occurs only under a precise set of neurological circumstances. It is impossible for a Dog to experience the precise set of neurological circumstances that according to the materialist position *is* PAIN. Therefore Dog pain and Human pain cannot be the same. Materialism robs us of a universal mental concept of painfulness that applies accross species. I would argue that anyone who's seen a Dog in pain would intuitively support the existence of a 'universal concept of painfulness' - the kicked dog is clearly in pain.

The point is, that the beleive in mental states necessitates a beleive in a mental realm (of some form) that is independent is certain ways from the physical. Could we call Ghosts (and in fact ufos) incidences of things 'going wrong' across the mental - physical divide? OR even mental events that we are poorly equiped to process?

[The Darklord]

Yes alex we could, the mental blip idea is a great one and works to explain away many sightings and psychic experiences - but I do not belive it covers every thing (then again I'm a fortean we don't really believe anything just have ideas).  THe problem is, just how do we define reality?  Can something be real for me and not for you?  My uncle early on in his nursing career had to treat a guy who was dying of a "Voodoo curse".  The man was seriously upset and agitated and not responding to anything they did, including medication to calm him down.  Eventually they got another male nurse who the guy hadnt seen and who was over from africa to put on some funny clothes, an introduced him as a powerfull witch doctor.  The nurse chanted over him for a minute or so, and then pretended to be chasing an evil spirit out of the room.  He then told the guy he had placed him under spirtual protection and no other magician would ever be able to harm him.  The guy was fine thereafter and went on his way the next day happy as can be.

Apart from the ethical questions this would probably raise these days (incident occured in the '60s) what actually happend?  A triumph of applied psychology or a clash of conflicting realities resolving themselves neatly?  THe nurse who performed the cure by the way had no knowledge of any actual magical practices and didnt belive in them himself.  

[The Darklord]

C'mon dont tell me your all bored already, I was enjoying this and the ufo thread!  

[alec42]

I think it supports the idea of the mental life. Mental problem, mental solution. Of course, there is the thorny issue of whether someone who doesn't beleive in Vodoo could be affected by such a curse, any cases extant?

[The Darklord]

Most of the curses I've heard of rely on the victim knowing they have been or could have been cursed - but then I guess we wouldnt hear of curses that quietly kill their victims without any evidence because, well there would be no evidence would there?

[The Darklord]

Also its a pretty tricky thing to prove wether something is magic or coincidence isnt it?, eg I curse you, two days later your brakes fail, well what does it prove?  I curse you and the very same day you have a horrible migrane, again what does it prove?

Azamoth, if you read this I have a feeling you know more about the legal definitions with the witch craft laws early last century, any thoughts?

[The Darklord]

Incidentally when do I get to go from deity to whatevers next?  I keep shamelessly upping my post count!  

[asamoth]

I always have thoughts, now if they are relevant or not is another story.

“The moon is just the sun’s reflection of the waters of the earth” Was once taught. We now believe it was formed by an impact between earth and mars or something. So what we think of as ghosts and grey aliens might be proven as the faerie of old. Who knows, personally I rather like the idea of ghosts and dragons and such.

Curses and magic are interesting, people don’t believe in them, but the same person believes that a democratic voting system means they really have a say. A lot in life seems to be a matter or belief or ideology, we forge the world with how perceptions and on that note:

My reality is pretty than yours!
   

[The Darklord]

*Beams* Yay Asy is back!  Missed your insanity mate.

As for your post, yep I am pretty convinced we all live in very different worlds to each other, same physically happening maybe but the senses and interpretation by our brain/minds mean we each have our own little world.  When two a very similar, thats maybe when you get those really spooky feelings like love, esp etc

[The Darklord]

Just an idea anyway,and a chance to up the post count, whats next? Lord of creation maybe?  I still kinda like Supreme funk monkey myself.